Abandonment of Rental Property

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by willair, 4th Dec, 2016.

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  1. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    @willair I think you are taking a risk not issuing the "notice to quit" and doing this legally. If this tenant has any clue that what you are doing isn't "by the book" you could find yourself in all sorts of trouble.

    Why not drive over and issue the notice now. I think (from memory) you need to issue the "notice to remedy breach" and then when the time is up for that notice (7 days), you issue the "notice to quit". That has a 7 day time to wait. It might mean another seven days to wait but at least your butt is covered.

    I cannot believe someone from RTA has given you the advice they have. That is unbelievable really. They are setting you up for a world of pain if the tenant knows her rights.

    I'd be checking the RTA website. It spells this out and I'd follow the timing you have to rather than risk jumping the gun.
     
    Last edited: 7th Dec, 2016
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  2. Nemo30

    Nemo30 Well-Known Member

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    There's usually due process to evict a tenant. doesnt sound like you have followed that process.

    When you asked the questions of the rta was that based on the tenant abandoning the property?

    If the tenant hasnt abandoned the property, and she has has told you she hasnt, you will need to go to tribunal to evict if she hasnt left within the timeframe of the notice to quit.
     
    Last edited: 7th Dec, 2016
  3. Biz

    Biz Well-Known Member

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    Good job getting someone in to manage this for you. It's good to have some distance between you and the tenant. I need that kind of separation, I reckon if I had to self manage I would have ended up in gaol by now on an assault charge.
     
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  4. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    They are having a lend of you.

    A ha ha msg would have ensured they were out for me. I do not think self managing is the problem, the problem for many is a business outlook and ability to have a business relationship, no decent PM would tolerate this, self managing means your the PM, they are not taking you seriously.

    Evict this idiot, so they learn to respect the system, fail to do this will cost you IMO & any lender will have no problem giving this lesson to you both if they cause you to fail to pay,

    A second chance is pay all outstanding now & stay up to date from then on, do not avoid sending any notices, even if they do pay up.
     
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  5. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Notice to remedy breach, wait seven days, notice to quit, wait another seven days.

    In my parents' situation it was an abandoned property. They didn't have to go to tribunal. I don't know whether you'd need to in this situation.

    The one time our tenants stopped paying rent, we issued both notices as above, and they had until midnight of the last day to move out. I had the police teed up to come with me at 7.30am next morning (hubby couldn't come with me due to work).

    I was able to call the police to say they weren't needed because I drove past on that last day and they were moving out. There were two druggie blokes and a poor girlfriend caught up with her partner. I didn't want to go there on my own.

    I was told by RTA that until they handed me the keys, I had no right to change the locks. I did it anyway, because I knew I would never hear from them again and had no chance of getting my keys back.

    I'd be calling RTA again tomorrow and specifically ask them how to deal with the exact situation you are in.
     
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  6. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Thanks Wylie and everyone..But what can i do,when i asked the Tenant why she never bothered to fix up the rent arrears for the past 6-7 weeks all she said was she sublet the property out to one of her mates and that person was going to pay her then pay me while she was in New Zealand ,the phone call before that one the Lady got the story mixed up and said she was in Fiji for a month then realised what she said..
    I told all this too the RTA,and they told me it will take 3 weeks or come to some agreement between myself and the Tenant which we have ..I Turn up at 4.30 on friday
    afternoon and the tenant will hand over the property and keys ,i told the tenant don't worry about the mess in the yard ,as long as the brand new carpets tiles are clean then that's all i'm worried about..You know i could have fixed the problem a week ago when after talking to the RTA try to contact the tenant then went over ,, back door wide open a glass bong with a bag of dope sitting on the washing machine inside the back laundry one phone call would have fixed it there and then,but i would not lower myself to dob someone in for that ,and i told the tenant that and the phone went real quite after i said that..
     
  7. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    Now you have taken things this far, can your new property manager help?
     
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  8. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    Well, if they come Friday and you get possession, then that let's you start again.

    Until they hand over and get out though, I would follow the rules in case you need to force the issue.
     
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  9. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    No i made this mess,so it's up too me to fixed it before i sign up with the new property manager..If it looks like i,m going to get bashed up from her mates then there will be 2 kelpies standing right behind me waiting ..
     
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  10. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    It's good that you want to take responsibility for what you have done. You may still need some advice though. Have you made a plan on how to pursue the unpaid rent?
     
  11. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    If the tenants are meeting you Friday and have agreed to hand back the keys I'd try to get them to sign a notice to leave (check what it is called - the one the tenant signs to say they are leaving) so that you are at least covered that way. Otherwise she might say you entered without notice or permission. I would also slip under the door tomorrow (well over 24 hour's notice) a "notice to enter".

    I'd photograph these notices sitting under the door or even taped to the front door. Cover yourself where you can.
     
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  12. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    I would not worry too much about blame/fault etc.....if your going to get a PM ask them if they are happy to take over...if you have the place back it should not be an issue and they may be able to advise on notices Wylie is talking about as of now.

    Heres hoping it goes smooth. Talk to PM anyway if they are getting it.
     
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  13. Matthew Savage

    Matthew Savage Well-Known Member

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    1. Notify your landlord insurer. If you don't have landlord insurance, get it for next time this happens.
    2. If you reasonably believe the tenant has abandoned the property (read starting at s355 of Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Act 2008), serve an abandonment termination notice to the tenant.
    3. If the tenant does not respond in accordance with the notice, then they are taken to have abandoned the property.
    4. s363 onwards of RTRA Act 2008 deals with abandoned goods (assuming the tenant does not respond and does not take their goods). Generally if the market value of the total of the goods left behind is more than $1,500, you need to notify the tenant, store them for one month, then sell them at a public auction (including publishing the auction and description of the goods in a newspaper). The value of goods and process is set out in Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Regulation 2009.
    5. You can apply to QCAT to avoid the abandonment process and get an order of abandonment, I'm not sure that they would deal with any goods at that early stage.
    Every self-managing landlord needs to read and understand the RTRA Act 2008 and RTRA Regulation 2009. If you don't bother to, or can't understand them, then you need to hire a property manager who knows what they are doing.
     
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  14. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    So it is clear and she has text messages to prove she hasn't abandoned the property. I don't think you can proceed and say you thought it was abandoned.

    She is still in breach and I'd be submitting the "remedy breach" notice, delivered in person this morning. Wait seven days, and deliver the "notice to quit". You will be waiting 14 days to get her out, assuming this is correct way to do this (check with RTA).

    But you say you called her and said you would meet her at 4.30 tomorrow (Friday). Regardless of the legalities of what you are doing, has she agreed to meet you and move her stuff out?
     
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  15. balwoges

    balwoges Well-Known Member

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    I would start the legal processes even if the tenant has said she will pay, that way the tenant is under no illusion as to what will happen if no payment is made. A good PM will do this to protect your interest - sounds as if you have been too lenient and you need the space between you and your tenant so get yourself a PM to manage your property and keep your sanity.
     
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  16. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I just come back from the RTA level 23-179 Turbot st,had a talk to someone working there..
    I explained what's happened and what i intend to do,and yes the tenant said not that it means anything but 4.30 tomorrow is the time and yes the tenant said she will leave and told me to start too advertise the property for rent..

    I told the gentleman at the RTA ,with the bank statement of the rent paid ,in the 14 weeks from the start of this lease,the rent was only paid three bank transfers ,then the last 6 weeks nothing ,Monday the tenant transferred $510.00 with a tex saying you will have to wait till the 20th of December ..

    Plan..B..
    Went up too Annerley Police Station talked too the Duty Sergeant ,they will not help in any civil matter like this,but if it looks like it will turn nasty then they will come with a 10 minute time range depending on what mobile units are in the local area.

    I have the new remedy breach" notice ready to go if it looks like as the tenant may well say that they will not leave,if it goes pear-shape that piece of paper will be in my back pocket and i will just pass it too the tenant and walk out the gate ,come back in 7 days then give the second notice..

    One person at the RTA told me,if i draft up a letter saying we both agree ..The tenant to leave and hand over the property keys and several ute loads of rubbish then if both agree and is singed by both parties that may finish the problem,my Solicitor will draw that up this afternoon..

    The interesting part is what the RTA told me when i asked the question ,do you see this happen often??..Yes everyday and some with above 5 rentals 3 out of the 5 are the same as they problems i face..
     
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  17. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Thanks for that Matthew,but have you ever been through this..
    It all good in black and white,but in the real world some people don't give a stuff about the Laws in place,because they have done this so many times that it becomes reality in their minds..
    Plus i rang my landlord insurance monday this week,have a claim number and someone was going to ring me by mid week no call nothing,it's never as easy as it all seems..
     
  18. Matthew Savage

    Matthew Savage Well-Known Member

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    Yep - probably about 15 times during my time as a property manager. I find that it is best to get the ball rolling on either a notice to leave or a notice of abandonment, immediately followed by seeking a QCAT order regarding possession. I found that 100% of the time, the member ordered that the tenant had a timeframe between 7-28 days to remedy the rent default and continue the lease, or that the bailiff would be engaged to move them on by force. It probably helped that I had evidence, rent ledgers etc - it is more difficult for self-managing landlords who do things on a bit of a handshake.

    Property management is easy most of the time, but when it gets hard, that's when you can lose $10K+ on rent and damages, with insurance often voided through landlord negligence. Fast action won't make the tenant behave, but it will usually mitigate any loss.

    Matt
     
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  19. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    No handshakes Matt,i have a lease in place .bond number.landlord insurance.
    I know i made a mistake from the start,but in the 27 years i have self managed
    this lease is a the top of the list..thanks again..
     
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  20. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds like she might play ball tomorrow and pack up. How much stuff is in the house. Furniture?

    Definitely get her to sign something if she turns up tomorrow as planned, maybe a notice to quit and put in tomorrow's date and if she signs that I think it is better than nothing. But I'd still drop that breach form in today. If she doesn't turn up tomorrow or doesn't sign the form to acknowledge that she is leaving, then you will save one day if you hand deliver the notice to remedy breach form today.

    Good luck.
     

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