VIC 800-900k budget - Newport/Williamstown, Couburg/Preston, Rosanna/Moorabin

Never done drugs in my life. Don't smoke, gamble, I'm a real goody two shoes trying to save to buy my first home. I'd like to think I have a decent knowledge of Melbourne - great grandparents came in 1956 and I don't think I need to tell you which suburb they settled in (Hint: it starts with an S). My grandparents bought new H&L in the same suburb in 1972 and have lived there ever since. Parents bought H&L in Taylors Lakes in 1990, moved two streets away to a bigger house in 2004 and have lived there ever since.

I grew up in Melbourne, spent 17 years in the city. It's a strange city, so unlike anywhere else I've ever lived, and given that OP is not from Melbourne all I tried to do is give them some ideas that they may not have considered. Ideas such as spending close to a mill on a house in Melbourne is not really necessary when there is still good value to be had for 300k+ less. Hardly warrants the personal attacks. All I did is present some alternatives. And sure, Sunbury and Diamond Creek may add 40 minutes to a city commute relative to the Docklands, but not relative to Coburg and Preston.

You're right, my advice might be a little over the shop, so I'll condense it down.
- Sunbury (400k range) - good lifestyle, slightly further from the city but good Metro train access and right on the Calder Freeway, take a short trip to Macedon or Kyneton whenever you feel like it
- Diamond Creek (600k range) - gorgeous suburb, excellent well renowned schools, freeway access slightly awful but access to other suburbs/Geelong is good thanks to ring road, good train access (again on the Metro line), travel to the Yarra Valley in your spare time and soak up the surrounds
- Sunshine (550-600k range for West, 700k for Central/Matthews Hill) - I presented this as an inner city alternative to my other urban fringe suggestions. If a 12min commute to Flagstaff is your go then Sunshine's got you covered. You pay less than the inner north suburbs for a similar (if not shorter) commuting distance. The Art Deco homes, Californian bungalows, 50s/60s weatherboard and 70s brick European style homes all look pretty good to me. There is a Bronx south of Wright St to be aware of, but if you stick to north of Wright St you'll be okay.

 

Hi Noodlesm,

I'm assuming you have school aged children? I'd start by researching the schooling options in the areas you've narrowed down. Then have a look at the zones and what is available housing wise within those areas.

The area I know best on your list above is Newport/Williamstown. Both have good primary schools. Trains run regularly to the city. From Newport, the train takes 20 mins.

Other areas that are popular in the West are Yarraville and Seddon. Access to the city via rail is about 15 mins and is along the same line as Newport. (Werribee Line).

Secondary aged children often attend Williamstown High, or travel via train to schools such as Wesley etc. Some attend Westbourne Grammar which offers a bus service.

All the best with your decision.

Regards Jason

 

I have to agree with you that many places have commission houses everywhere in melbourne not necessarily the north, i think the ones one should be worried about are the housing commission flats (not houses) but not all suburbs are equal and maybe you recollecting from your experiences to the more shady housing comm areas of ascot vale and dandenong and your area in norlane which i presume you are from

Not sure if you really have been on the ground to make a proper assessment but I have been attending auctions inspections and visting these suburbs streets (northern - preston, reservoir, thomastown epping, thornbury) also on the west (maidstone, sunshine & West , braybrook).
One thing about the northern suburbs are they are underpriced for their location and distance to CBD. Also lots of infrastructure and renewal projects are coming in. I do like sunshine too and it's township but i believe it is at its peak now and the yields are really low in that side of town. Demographics wise - it i feel is more a dandenong feel and if i had to rank auction activity and how hot it was from a rating of 10 this would what it would be

10 - Balwyn, Glen Waverley
7 - Preston, Reservoir, Thornbury, Northcote
5 - Sunshine.(was a 7 last year though)

FYI : ex-housing commission houses are actually a good thing for investors who want to get into a suburb that is changing. Ashwood which really the whole suburb was housing comm are now 1-1.2 million for 500-600sqm block.and 1.6 mil in the likes of port melbourne area. So unless you are into the 2-3 million purchasing of houses in kew and hawthron they're actually not that bad of a buy for growth purposes



I'll throw a few pics of some housing comm in the north (and it's not even in northcote or thornbury). These are areas were the demographics are changing and prices are rising. Yes new townhouses are coming up, There are a lot of Asians buyers coming in and changing the mix up of things (which is similar to ashwood and chadstone). not many places you would see a 100K merc and a porsche parked outside as you claimed next door to ex-housing comm.

 

Unfortunately demographics can change the suburb price (as new money is brought in some unfortunately have more than others - which is the reality of the world). There are a lot of vietnamese and african migrants (which in some respect is similar to the dandenong - restaurant wise, vibe and feel). I am not saying it's bad but it definitely not box hill or glen waverley is what i am getting at. Preston (the north) the high st is like a mini box hill maybe 15 years ago.

 

you're a true born westie for the looks like things. Sunshine West is overpriced in my opinion. To be honest, from an investor point of view, couldn't care too much abt art deco, californian bungalow - that's more for the premium sububs not some upcoming suburb. what most investors are 1) What infrastructure is coming in 2) Zoning - whether is growth zone or not). This art deco or heritage homes are useful for houses in Kew, Balwyn, Hawthorn, Brighton where majority has a blanketed (Neighbourhood residential zone) which basically restricts the a dwelling to 500sqm for e.g. Kew. If someone bought a californian bungalow (600k) and ex-housing com house for say 500K both equal with 600sqm land in same zone- both gets a permit for 3 townhouses - which say gives 100K profit (having a californian bungalow has next to no relevance). For a PPOR as the OP has mentioned - yes but if i think of californian bungalows, art deco the thought that comes to mind is Mont albert, Albert park, Seddon etc.

 

Too bogan for my liking.

 

You have some interesting views of places which others have pointed out but some houses in Watsonia & Greensborough are all pushing 1M for a renovated home, some even reach more e.g. 11 Leafield Street, Watsonia, Vic 3087 - Property Details - sold ~1.2M July 2016.

 

It is situated in the middle of Heidelberg West which still carries a stigma.

Also doesn't have access to a train station but has a very good bus network.

I go to Northland but it would be my third choice due to proximity and I live about the same distance from Doncaster and Northlands so would prefer to go to Doncaster .

 

Maybe I'm just an interesting kinda guy not surprised to see these kind of prices though, Greensborough/Watsonia are gorgeous suburbs, great places to live.

 

End of the day there are always good and bad but what was once bad can turn good and what was good can become bad.

I grew up in Brisbane and going a long time back no one would basically step foot in Southbank. It was full of druggies, gangs, prostitutes, homeless and less than stand up citizens. However today well really for the last 20 years it is a very safe suburb and very expensive houses.

Similar to Williamstown town that I heard from my parents, long time ago you would need to carry a baseball bat on the train just to project yourself & take home pay but today you probably wouldn't even know of this stuff happening (FYI I haven't been on the train there so cant say it is but I would be very surprised if you still need a baseball bat).

If you look at Edmund Rice Parade in Watsonia/Bundoora it really shows you some amazing houses that you used to be able to get for the 1-1.5M a year to couple of years ago (e.g Nov 2015 1.3M 106 Edmund Rice Parade, Bundoora, Vic 3083 - Property Details). However this year the prices have really jumped up.

 

Interesting! On your Brisbane experience, I lived in Woolloongabba for a fair while, not too far from Southbank. As an interstater who grew up in Melbourne, I wasn't aware of any stigmas. When I first moved there, people would almost recoil in horror when I mentioned where I lived, or at best they would give me a polite "I wouldn't personally want to live there". A few years later, people would bang on about Woolloongabba's amazing cafe culture and how they wished they lived there.

I'm 22, never been bothered by any stigma or bad words I hear about any suburb. I just form my opinions from actually visiting places in question. Earlier in this thread, there were some photos of million dollar commission housing in Chadstone/Ashwood; I wouldn't mind living in those two suburbs myself, same goes with nearby Clayton or Oakleigh (not that I would ever have the million to buy the house). I'd even live in one of the odd weatherboard commission houses dotted around Cornwall Rd in Sunshine (I would pay the extra for a Californian bungalow though). The inner north however...I just couldn't do. Maybe it's the 'vibe' (insert Castle joke here).

Stigma's a funny thing, isn't it?

 

PPOR and investment properties are two different kettle of fish, what would suit a investor doesn't always suit the PPOR and vice versa.

But yes stigma is something that people have and even still it is hard to get rid of just look at Heidelberg west it still has a bad stigma but if you want to look at future growth it would certainly have good times ahead considering the neighboring suburbs.

 

There are parts of Heidelberg West you probably wouldn't want to venture without a security escort but other pockets are really nice. Prices reflect this. A few years ago I would never have thought properties in Heidelberg West would be selling for over $1,000 per square metre. That's a crazy price to me!

24 Derna Street, Heidelberg West, Vic 3081 - Property Details

2 Narvik Crescent, Heidelberg West, Vic 3081 - Property Details

37 Timor Parade, Heidelberg West, Vic 3081 - Property Details

This one is the highest I have seen for a non-corner block. $1,170/sqm

14 Lae Street, Heidelberg West, Vic 3081 - Property Details

 

Only one photo which was the sale photo of the ex-housing comm house in ashwood chadstone. It is rough there as well, i was taking photos of houses and one girl on the front yard yelled some obscene words to me.

The photos of the porsche and mercedes are in the north -) funny you guys are talking about northland but it's actually near northland. People see potential in these areas and have higher incomes are moving in. What that means is - changing demographics with higher income levels will push up prices. You can go to the auctions and see this evidently. you don't see places like doveton or dandenong housing commission areas having a brand in year merc or porsche or lexus right parked right outside? in fact you don't see those demographics in sunishine at all.These are prime examples of suburbs gentrifying similar to chadstone or ashwood. what was 500K in ashwood is now 1.1 mil. Even heidelberg west is pushing 700-800K now which if you ask me is crazy. Heidelberg Heights i can understand though.

From your post - i thought you were a seasoned investor but it seems like you haven't bought a property yet? i do have to say you have some good insights to the suburb for your age. i bought my first at 21 and have bought and sold more than your age itself. But i reckon you should just dive into it and get something. it's not all about calfifornian bunglow or housing commisison for that matter - it is more about the process (buying, selling, renovating, finance, tax, income level depreciation, planning etc).One thing i might suggest is to learn the zoning and learn how to look at streets, infrastructure etc as generalizing is not the best approach. To be honest, i never lived in the north, i own in the north west east but to me it's just whichever would give the best gain. For the best - i believe it's in the north.

 

Although some suburbs are expensive, there are still elements of what was in the past. Go walk on say victoria street and church st richmond, and you'll get asked if you want to buy drugs and we talking of workers cottages places flying around for 1-1.5million in that area. Some places still remain dodgy. I go this vietnamese pork roll place evey week off smith st in collingwood and you're see the most dodgy people there all the time. once a guy threw his cigarette half finished on the floor and 5 seconds a guy quickly ran to it and dusted it off to save it. That's like right in collingwood central.

 

Hey thanks for the advice, what I'd like to know is how you pros pick up on the future potential. Maybe my little Sunshine will get the Mercs Porsches and BMWs rushing in one day, if I can see the appeal surely some others will have to at some stage As an investment, maybe down the track, but as a place of residence those inner northern suburbs are not for me. Anything on the Hurstbridge line past Greensborough though...would live there in a heartbeat!

I'll take it as a compliment that you thought I was a seasoned investor! I'm currently saving hard for my first property, have $64k saved up right now. I'm looking at Geelong East and Geelong West, probably gone to about 10 inspections so far, and I plan on going to many more! That's actually why I joined the forum - to get an idea about the technical side of property investing, and read about other people's experiences.

Out of curiosity, how do you know if one particular street's a good street? Is it mainly general tidiness, presentability of the houses and front yards? Or is it more distance to the beach, town centre, shopping, train station, all the good stuff?

 

Personally I wouldn't live in greensborough due to the distance and time to the CBD and there is nothing wrong with the suburb in general.I am not sure why u have a certain bias towards the inner north. Maybe an ex girlfriend or boyfriend that didn't work out?

As long as the fundamentals are right or pricing etc When I starting buying land in pt cook I didn't exactlyhad the highest regard for the place bit look at it. Similar to when I bought in London and overseas.

Congrats on the big effort to save but why Geelong? Lots of jobs getting lost there from the fords etc and target announced 900 jobs are going from Geelong. Income is below the average same as rental and a lot of things. It is in my opinion the worst place to put ur money at this point of time as there is lot of uncertainty. Yeah there is a lot of talk of the hospital airport etc but how many years is that going to take. Take for example the 900 jobs from target assuming all live in Geelong say 700 got jobs in Melbourne or north or east ? And assuming 600 of those rented and moved closer to work that's still 600 homes now without rental. Assuming that 600 homes owners after 1 year fell back behind mortgage repayments what is going to happen? You seem like a smart guy it is not different to Gladstone etc when the Mining jobs disappeared even Logan in Queensland the very least is it is close to the Brisbane CBD and Gold Coast where ppl still can commute to work.

There is no hard and fast rules around streets. I once went to a street and thought it was crap as 3-4 houses away was a factory but it went up 100k more than the reserve. Each suburb is different u just have to learn it by going and visiting the streets looking at reports. Go the department of planning site look at the zoning maps. Being in one Zone can mean a 100k more than another. Look at overlay vegetation heritage etc. check the ppl living in the streets cars houses etc go visit the local supermarket or market or restaurants etc . It's basically on the ground research and during auction u will see what kind of ppl bid or how strong is their capacity to bring prices up. 10 inspections is not really a lot I have been to close to 400 inspections and auctions combined in a year. I have been Each suburb is different in terms of this.

 

Thanks for all the advice!

I don't exactly lie awake at night thinking about how I wish Preston and Northcote were wiped from the face of the earth. All I wanted to do was warn the out-of-towner OP that there are other suburbs that might be better to live in, particularly with a family. No bitter spats between lovers here!

For my first property I intend to buy something I will move into in a few years, and live in for a while. And yes, that means going for something Victorian, Edwardian, Californian Bungalow, Art Deco, fifties clinker brick. What can I say, I like pretty houses! In two to three years time I will likely buy another IP and move into my Geelong home, and with this new IP I can think solely with my head (and yes that may even mean an ex commission house in Thornbury!)

I've got a few reasons for going for Geelong in particular:
- I work in Geelong. I can't speak for all industries, and I see what you're saying about the economic downturn in the area. However, in my field it's much easier to find work in regional areas than it is in Melbourne, simply due to there being less competition for available jobs. Given the recent lifting on admission caps for university places, many young professionals would be forced to find work regionally.
- Entry point: Geelong is currently attainable for first home buyers but much of Melbourne (excluding the new estates) simply isn't. I'm saving hard but I'm not on a high income. It allows me to be near my western suburbs family without being priced out. Plenty of FHB's who want the heritage housing (like I do) are already flocking to Geelong because it's what they can afford.
- It's becoming more and more a suburb of Melbourne: Given new housing out in the eastern side of town is in the Officer/Clyde kind of region - it's actually comparatively quick to get to Geelong! I commute 45min for work in Geelong, no traffic hassles, just quick and easy freeway, turn the music up in the car and enjoy the ride. One hour exactly on the V Line train to Southern Cross. It takes longer to get to higher $ Frankston by train!
- It's a pleasing city to live in: Beach right on your doorstep, relaxed pace of life, gorgeous town centre without masses of skyscrapers, proximity to Surf Coast/Bellarine. It's a 20min drive to some of the most gorgeous beaches this country has to offer as opposed to 20min to...yet more suburbia.

I'm aiming for inner Geelong because I feel like the price difference between West/East and Belmont/Highton simply isn't big enough to justify being further out, as nice as the south of river suburbs are.

 

Sounds like an area perfect for gentrification and capital growth

I just bought a place close to Northland, so hopefully no one will come and break in