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2 questions on Splitters - QLD

Discussion in 'Development' started by jsoe000, 9th Jul, 2015.

  1. jsoe000

    jsoe000 Well-Known Member

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    Hi all former SS members and new ones,
    I've got 2 specific questions about them splitters in QLD please.

    1. I see a lot of houses in the middle of 2 lots (splitters). My question is can we have 2 adjoining / attached houses on 2 lots? Like a duplex - one adjoining fireproof wall, but separate titles. Does BCC allow this? Or do the houses have to be detached and separate?

    2. The main attraction of these splitters used to be just the paper shuffle at the council saving you about $26k on infrastructure costs. Now, BCC seems to have changed their mind and starts whacking those costs on splitters. So, am I correct to assume that that Infrastructure cost savings days are now over? And Splitters will cost as much as Subdividers?

    Thanks heaps,
    Junie
     
  2. Steven Ryan

    Steven Ryan Mortgage Broker Business Plus Member

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    I'd be interested to know the answer too.

    An aside, I do know if there's enough room, it can be an option to lift/reposition the existing dwelling on one of the new lots.
     
  3. WilliamB

    WilliamB Well-Known Member

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    1. I'm not sure about this specifically, but I have seen a few duplexes pop up on 405 corner blocks in the BCC area.
    2. We had QUU try to bend us over on a 2 lot "splitter" a while back. I kicked up a pretty sizeable stink and managed to have the charges overturned. The below thread shows the detail. http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107750
     
    Last edited: 9th Jul, 2015
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  4. jsoe000

    jsoe000 Well-Known Member

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    Hi WilliamB, Thanks for this. Yes, I followed that thread closely. Good for you, but I think other investors got stung regardless. Hence, my question.

    What do Splitters fans think? Are they taking infrastructure costs into their feasiblity study nowadays?
     
  5. WilliamB

    WilliamB Well-Known Member

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    Mate if they copped it I think they should have fought harder. In fact, if you know someone that did, get them them to pm me or pm me on their behalf, and I will give them any information I have to help them get it corrected.

    The reason QUU gave us for overturning the charges wasn't driven by compassion, I believe it was because they had made a mistake. They may have been less likely to do so if I hadn't have kicked up a stink, but the notice I received is below.

    I'm not sure QUU is in the business of giving refunds, but I think they would have a pretty strong case based on the review letter I received.

    I tried to post a screenshot on Somersoft but it may not have worked.

    upload_2015-7-10_15-8-28.png

    Based on this, I have not added ICNs to my feasos for any of my remaining splitters because it reads like it was issued in error.

    If I get another one, I will again fight it hard. I suggest anyone else does the same!

    QUU may look at doing some sort of time based swap over where they begin to bend people over if they purchase a block after a certain date. I would suggest speaking to your own town planner to get confirmation.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. TonyXU

    TonyXU Member

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    Hi William, thanks for sharing this. It is really helpful.
    I have a similar splitter (two lots on one title) site under due diligence at the moment.
    I can see QUU did not charge for infrastructure levy in your case is because there is no further development permit required.
    My question is if the house requires DA for demolition, does this then break that rule?
    What's your opinion on this?
    Thank you!

    Regards,
    Tony
     
  7. RPI

    RPI Property Lawyer, Town Planner Business Member

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    I haven't actually seen this IC being charged yet but there is talk of it changing. We don't actually do the project management from DA to plan endorsement by council. But none of the IC notices that come out with the DA's I have seen have it.
     
  8. WilliamB

    WilliamB Well-Known Member

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    Hi Tony, I have confirmation now from my Town Planner that anyone that received an ICN for a splitter block did so in error. I have said on other threads that if you did pay it, I would be contacting QUU after getting a copy of my amendment notice and demanding reimbursement.

    I would not budget ICN for a splitter (this does not include widows blocks as I can't comment on that, I regularly hear different things and I suspect you will need a DA), however I did not require DA to demolish this property, in fact this has not been a requirement for any of the 6 properties I have demolished in the past 24 months. I would definitely still speak to a town planner. Gateway Survey and Planning have always looked after me.

    In respect of the actual dwelling, is it DCP, or in the new code TBC (Traditional Building Character)? I can't think of another reason for DA requirement?

    Cheers,
     
  9. TonyXU

    TonyXU Member

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    A DA may be required as the house is in DCP though it does have a post war house appearance. I am not too worries but I have lodged a building record search to BCC to find out the exact built year and hopefully get an answer soon.

    I have another issue if could help. I am trying to lodge a QUU standard connection however I am struggling to provide the supporting documents. See below. Do you usually collect these information and submit to QUU for connections yourself or you always engage a civil engineer?

    If you do collect all these yourself, where do you get these information from? Does "Preferred location of new water meter" or "wastewater service" matter?

    I highly doubt these information can be easily answered by a ordinary investor / first time developer.

    Thanks again.

    "
    Supporting information

    Please proceed to upload the following documents. Please note that inadequate information will delay commencement of our review of your request.

    Site plan (mandatory) *
    Please upload (as a PDF) a detailed site plan, containing the following information relevant to the service(s) requested in the application:
      • Property boundaries and lengths
      • Location of all existing and planned buildings on the site
      • Location of electricity supply, including whether it is overhead or underground (e.g. via a separate electricity plan)
      • Indication of any other structures (such as driveways) which may impact on the location of each requested service
      • Preferred location of new water meter (if any)
      • Preferred location of connection point for wastewater service (if any)
      • Identification of which lot relates to house #1 and house #2 (if relevant, for a two-lot sub-division).
    "
     
  10. LJW

    LJW Member

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    1) I presume you are talking about 2 x 405sqm lots in the LDR Zone in Brisbane. If so, no you can't. You can have internal party walls but only for non-habitable space and only the lower storey (less than 3m). You can for adjoining lots less than or equal to 300sqm.

    2) As mentioned previously, it seems QUU are no longer charging IC where not creating any additional lots.

    First part) Just go on Council's interactive mapping and turn on the 1946 aerial photo. They are often blurry but if there was a house on the site in the pre-1946 aerial photo, there is a good chance that it is the original house and may not able to be demolished. I would strongly recommend contacting a town planner to confirm. Although the house may look like a postwar house, there has been some fairly recent case law regarding "austerity" style interwar houses. Although they do not exhibit many characteristics of a traditional "queenslander", the courts have determined that they are a traditional pre-1946 building form and are protected from demolition.

    Second part) You can do it yourself but you will need to know approximately where the existing sewer/water connections are and where you would like the new sewer/water connections to go. To be honest, I would just get an engineer to prepare this plan and lodge the standard connections applications for you. We have use Civil Works Engineers pretty regularly in the past for this (contact Roger Andrade). From memory, they charge a nominal fee ($200 - 300 or so) for this and take care of everything for you, including the liaison with QUU. Probably not a bad idea for a first timer.
     
  11. TonyXU

    TonyXU Member

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    Thanks for your advice! I am waiting on the building record search. The 1946 aerial photo does show a small house though it's completely different from the current one.

    I have also contacted Roger for the detailed plan and it's great!

    Do you know if a splitter block trigger CGT or GST?
     
  12. WilliamB

    WilliamB Well-Known Member

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    Hi Tony I don't know if I'd be spending hundreds of dollars on a civil works engineer for basically what is a scribble on a dial before you dig plan. I normally take the quu plan and just draw in locations there.

    It also sounds like you need to speak to an experienced accountant before pulling the trigger on this sort of undertaking. In short the answer to you question is "yes it can trigger gst and cgt, but...." depending on your scenario and intentions. It can be quite complex.
     
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  13. Leo2413

    Leo2413 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I will be splitting a 946sqm block into two free standing dwellings in the nest few months so this thread and the like have been more interesting.
     
  14. eggnog

    eggnog Active Member

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    Im with williamb on this one. I just completed a splitter project few months ago. Didnt engage a civil engineer. Just scribbled on a piece of paper where current services are and where i wanted new ones put in. And i cannot recommend enough how important it is to talk to an accountant beforehand. I even talked to 2 different firms before starting this project. I did pay cgt but everyones situation will be different.
     
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  15. TonyXU

    TonyXU Member

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    Thanks William. Talked to WilliamBuck today. Would be GST most likely in my case. Thank you!
    Sewerage is bit tricky on mine. That dial before you dig thingy is awesome! Thank you!
     
    Last edited: 7th Aug, 2015