2 dwellings on 1 lot - Vic experiences?

Discussion in 'Development' started by bamp, 13th Dec, 2019.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. bamp

    bamp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11th Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    309
    Location:
    Home
    Hi all,

    Anyone have any experiences in Victoria (in particular Brimbank council) with applying to councils for 2 dwellings on 1 lot? I have a 60 sqm "bungalow" at the back of my house which has been signed off by council as a class 10a shed, but could easily be converted to a self contained unit (dare i say it a granny flat although thats a no no in Vic) and wanted to understand how detailed the process is to make it legit from anyone here who has done it.

    How much time/how costly was it?
    Did you use any professionals or do it yourself?
    Also do councils in vic really force granny flats to be destroyed once a dependent no longer lives in it?? Whats the worst that could happen if they find out one is being rented out, as in my area i seem to see them all the time.

    Thanks
     
  2. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,692
    Location:
    The beautiful Hills District, Sydney Australia
    No one has cracked the granny flat issues in VIC yet... They are able to be used as Dependent Person Units only. They cannot be leased for a secondary income. If you do crack it, let me know... lots of good business to be done :) But the reality is you probably won't crack it until VIC adopts a policy similar to the NSW AHSEPP, or comes up with its own policy , which they've been talking about for years now without acting on.
     
    Last edited: 15th Dec, 2019
  3. Fargo

    Fargo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,304
    Location:
    Vic
    I don't know about Brimbank, but for some councils it is not an issue, the regulations are not enforced, euro in his typical misleading style would have you believe the abode police with genealogist will come a knockin and throw all the nurses, students, doctors, food processing and seasonal workers out to live under the bridge, or bugger off and leave the city without essential services, and expect those without licences or a car, to walk 10k to a town of 700 in another state. putting their life in danger dodging traffic over a narrowing bridge to reside in a house for exhorbitant rent, while he thinks it is a great investment, which going by his own figures only gives a CAGR of 5%(annual growth rate), by my calculations . from the little I read of his long winded convoluted essays trying to turn a sows ear into a silk purse, instead of just cutting to the chase 6 words all he had to say was 6 words " the 220K becomes 650k after 20 years". By then you will need to spend 50k on maintenance and your 650k will only be worth 400k . A waste of precious capital worse, if you pay off the loan, as he suggests, instead of investing your cash in a compounding growth asset.
     
  4. PurpleTurtle

    PurpleTurtle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10th Jan, 2016
    Posts:
    118
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I think what euro73 was saying here is there’s no way to do this in a legit way like the OP asked.

    In Victoria you can’t have them leased separately. If you want to do it quietly with cash under that table so to speak, that’s your business. I have no idea of the consequences if caught or the likelihood of this happening.
     
    Tufan Chakir likes this.
  5. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,692
    Location:
    The beautiful Hills District, Sydney Australia
    Thats correct . As usual, @Fargo is 4 words - all troll , no fact. Has the forum ever seen a better example of a troll? Fact after fact manufactured or distorted . Relentless misrepresentation and story telling at every turn. Should run for parliament - would fit right in .

    #number1troll
     
    Last edited: 14th Dec, 2019
  6. bamp

    bamp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11th Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    309
    Location:
    Home
    But isn't applying for a 2 dwellings on 1 lot a legitimate way? Or is this just too costly/time consuming to do?
     
  7. Tufan Chakir

    Tufan Chakir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Aug, 2016
    Posts:
    745
    Location:
    Victoria, Australia
    A dependent persons unit doesn't require a planning permit in Vic. But it is what it is - for a dependent person (granny, disabled person etc etc). It won't require car parking/garage etc, or secluded private open space. It is intended to provide for independent living. The regs require it to be removed after it is no longer used for a dependent. Enforcement throughout the state is pretty slack, so the chance of being ordered to have it removed is probably slim, but there's pretty much no recourse if required to remove it. A second dwelling will require open space, parking etc etc.
     
    bamp and lixas4 like this.
  8. bamp

    bamp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11th Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    309
    Location:
    Home
    Yeah this is the tricky part, I've called councils in the past asking about this and they tend to be evasive. It's very frustrating as I just want to make the most efficient use of my existing property.
     
  9. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    4,911
    Location:
    Perth, WA
    To be clear here, you're saying its frustrating deciding whether or not to carry out an unlawful development?

    Do you really want to be that sort of investor?
     
    PurpleTurtle likes this.
  10. bamp

    bamp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11th Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    309
    Location:
    Home
    Not at all, my calls to council have been when i've gone to open inspections for houses advertised as dual income with a clear granny flat being rented out, and the realtor has said no comment when i've asked if it is legal. Naturally I've tried to seek clarity from council about this, but they have generally been evasive, hence my frustration.

    If you read my OP you'd see I want to go about it the right way with the necessary planning and building permits. Any advice on this?
     
  11. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    4,911
    Location:
    Perth, WA
    Yes, assume its not allowed until you get full planning approval.

    As you whether its even possible to get planning approval for that sort of thing, consult the local planning scheme and policies, supplemented by advice from a town planning professional.

    What else is there to say? You seem to already know that anecdotally, that sort of thing isn't generally allowed in Vic.
     
    PurpleTurtle likes this.
  12. PurpleTurtle

    PurpleTurtle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10th Jan, 2016
    Posts:
    118
    Location:
    Melbourne
    It’s not that it’s too costly or time consuming. It’s that is is too illegal. But sure, applying for approval to do it would be the legitimate way. You’ll just be told no.

    The fact that real estate agents refuse to answer your questions about the legality of these places listed as dual occ would be a big hint too.

    edit: but to be fair, I’m just an internet random with no real expertise in this area. I just know what I’ve read from other internet randoms.
     
  13. lixas4

    lixas4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th Jan, 2016
    Posts:
    624
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi bamp, have a read of @Tufan Chakir post again, he explains it well. He is a planner/arch, so if you want to do it the right way, you should call him.
     
    Tufan Chakir likes this.