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2/3 of investors claiming losses earn average income (or below).

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by Steven Ryan, 7th Jul, 2015.

  1. Steven Ryan

    Steven Ryan Mortgage Broker Business Plus Member

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    Those greedy people:

    http://news.domain.com.au/domain/re...investment-property-boom-20150706-gi60n9.html


     
    Last edited by a moderator: 15th Jul, 2015
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  2. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

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    And those entitled young people :confused:
     
  3. Hanison

    Hanison Well-Known Member

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    Here comes the fun police.
     
  4. Hodge

    Hodge Well-Known Member

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    Just done my tax return today and can safely say I'm one of them.
     
  5. MindMaster

    MindMaster Well-Known Member

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    A very pro negative gearing article.
     
  6. drg86

    drg86 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta love negative gearing :D
     
  7. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. freyja

    freyja Well-Known Member

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    Teachers and taxi drivers are easy targets...
     
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  9. Ed Barton

    Ed Barton Well-Known Member

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    The income figures are taxable income (Ie after deductions) so do not demonstrate what the article claims to demonstrate - that 2/3 of investors claiming loses are low/middle-income earners.
     
  10. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    A bit of reality;

    We are curently experiencing record low interest rates....everyone feels more confident to borrow. Most still won't, but the numbers of folks who have it on their mind has increased. This is merely human nature.

    A teacher or taxi driver on average wage is still going to run out of servicability pretty fast unless they can buy every property as a CFP one...that is not easy to do anywhere. It is doable, but not easy.

    These folks are not going to be stealing properties off the middle-ring or top-end buyers - the entry level is simply too high for them. They will have to look at below median housing to get in.

    This being the case; it makes sense that more houses should sell in the bottom end of the market - below median. The medians should be going down with all this supposed investor frenzy with their evil NG.

    Yet, the medians are going up - this suggests that there are more houses being sold in the median and above sections of the market - where most investors simply cannot afford.

    So, this means that all those houses at median and above are more likely to be bought by PPoR buyers who are trading up (or down), and the very minute percentage of investors who are seriously cashed up/equitied up and who can play at a higher level.

    I used to own 5 IP's...now only have 1.

    Except for one (a $395k townhouse in Mentone), they were all below median pricepoint purchases. They had to be; we could not afford to splurge on higher priced IP's with crap yields - we needed serviceability to keep on buying.

    As a 5 IP owner, I was in the top 2% (or is it 1%?) of investors with more than 2 IP's.

    I know noone outside of this forum who owns more than 1 IP - I know less than one handful who own only 1 IP.

    I can safely say that I have never gazumped any FHB for any of the IP's I have bought.

    The numbers are simply staggeringly not much...there simply are not that many investors stealing houses off FHB's, and/or the main cause of price rises with their neg gearing.

    Yes, there are more investors out there now due to low rates - but don't forget; property prices have gone up, and rents haven't matched them - so the yields are still crap for a lot of places....unless this new wave of investors taking over the world have LOADS of cash to put down as deposits.

    I think you'll find it is the same as it has always been - investors using equity and borrowings up to very high LVR's to get in. This equates to mostly neg geared, which means most folks aint gunna be buying a sackful of properties.

    Where was all the noise back in the mid 2000's, when Sydney houses (or anywhere) were toxic?
     
    Last edited: 8th Jul, 2015
  11. C-mac

    C-mac Well-Known Member

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    And I say good on every one of tbose investors. It is great to see that so many sub-$80K earners are legally working the system as much as possible.
     
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  12. ZachAnsel

    ZachAnsel Well-Known Member

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    For me those taxi driver & teacher are much better than greedy centrelink money sucker who doesnt want to work.
     
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  13. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I saw last night some US states have introduced drug testing for people on welfare. I completely agree with it, as a person working isn't allowed to take illicit drugs so why not someone on welfare. After all welfare isn't meant to be used for their next hit.
     
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  14. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    They aren't allowed, but they DO. Try suggesting alcohol and drug tests for politicians, both for when they are sitting and working in their electorates and see how you go.
     
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  15. C-mac

    C-mac Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt be as concerned about the welfare economy in Australia right now as I would with the cash economy that is ripping through our already weak economy.

    Sure, us property investors legally work the system as much as possible, with a view to minimising tax, I know that. BUT ... we continue to contribute to the system in so many other ways. Many investors also own businesses and pay staff and employ people, and do it legitimately via payroll and tax declaration etc. We also pay handsome govegovernment and state tax fees when we buy/sell, and stimulate business and trades when we legally snip at bunnings and legally employ tradies etc.

    But the black money and illegal tax avoiders are massively on the rise. Sure our boomers drain some of the public purse but all these 'cash-only' businesses... and businesses still illegally employing people and paying them below minimum wage - but paying it in cash - none of this money filters through the public purse. This is far worse than your regular investor's legal tax avoidances, and just as bad as welfare burners.

    We are massively increasing immigration which is arguably needed, but many of the entrepreneur migrants starting up businesses here are coming from cultures where the cash economy is the norm. And guess what, some of them will start up businesses here, almost instantly, with a cash-based approach :(

    Sorry to go a bit OT but I think in a way it is on topic to note the illegal tax avoiders to highlight the difference and damage they do, compared to us.
     
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  16. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    I would have thought it was getting harder?

    Our business for eg; almost noone pays in cash anymore - certainly not anything of any size; maybe the odd puncture repair and the odd single cheaper-end tyre.

    Restaurants and cafes possibly, smaller items under $20 in supermarkets and so on.

    I know that tradies do "cashies" now and then too; but that's always been the case, so to use them as a new factor in the anti-NG argument currently - won't fly.

    Where else could it exist that it would make any sort of dent?
     
  17. Coota9

    Coota9 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    So this means we should listen in the back of a taxi when the driver says-
    "You should by in x as prices will go up"

    Well..who would have thought!!
     
  18. Casteller

    Casteller Well-Known Member

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    The title of the thread is not true since as someone said the 80k figure is after tax deductions. The stats show property investors are mostly above average income earners.
     
  19. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Well-Known Member

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    Hey I'm a teacher. Not sure how I feel about my profession being put in the same category as taxi drivers and cleaners.
     
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  20. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    Like all stats that quote averages, the problem is they quote averages.

    It doesn't take many unltra-high income earners making claims to eclipse a massive volume of Mum and Dad investors on "average incomes".

    Thus; it would appear that all investors a re uber-earners according to the stats.